St. Michael's Catholic
Church in Auburn, Alabama
Sacred
Music and Salvation
An Interview with Wilko Brouwers
(also
in PDF)
Famous conductors of our day wave their batons in front of big city
orchestras, compose electrically charged film scores, and attract
adoring crowds. But there is more than one path to greatness.
Others follow in the in the footsteps of Palestrina and Bach with their
deliberate commitment to truly sacred music that is truly art. They
understand the intimate relationship between music and holiness, and
work to make that connection real in our religious lives.
Wilko
Brouwers, conductor, composer, organist, and teacher, is a man for whom
great music is inseparable from that which is sacred. He
understands that it alone is this connection with the Creator that make
music worthy of our best efforts, most specifically, within the context
of the Catholic liturgy. Mr. Brouwers is unassuming in
stature, but immense in artistry, insight, and the relentless pursuit
of perfection in the service of the faith.
A native of the Netherlands, Brouwers studied choral conducting at the
Music Academy of Arnhem and the Liszt Academy in Budapest, and is the
director of the Ward Center Holland, an institute for music education.
He has conducted the Monteverdi
Kamerkoor Utrecht since 1989, a
group which performs in the Netherlands and abroad, has made recording
and earned top honors in the Dutch Choir Festival’s mixed
choir category in 1997 and 2000. He also directs the Strijps Kamerkoor,
the Kinderkoor Keysershoff, and plays the organ for Saint Christopher
Church in Waalre.
Mr.
Brouwers was invited to serve as choral conductor for the Church Music
Association of America’s
14th
annual Colloquium on
Liturgical Music and the Restoration of the Sacred, held at Catholic
University the during the fourth week of June, 2004. The aim of this
annual meeting is to assist church musicians in maintaining the highest
artistic standards in composition and execution, and to preserve the
Church’s treasury of sacred music, especially Gregorian
chant. Mr. Brouwers (email
was interviewed during this meeting by Arlene Oost-Zinner
in Washington, DC.
* * *
* *
Q:
How
did you first encounter Gregorian chant?
BROUWERS:
At a
monastery of Benedictines. I was a little boy,and my father took me
there, and I heard the monks sing. The next week I went on my
bicycle, and I asked the name of the monk was who was conducting. Fr.
Michael came out and introduced himself, and I asked him to teach me
what they were doing. He took me into a wood and we sat on a large
stone, and I remember very distinctly what he said to me:
“There is a world of melody, and a world of
rhythm.”
Q:
Did
you understand what he meant?
BROUWERS:
Not
really, but he said it with such a sense of mystery that I was sure
that he was right. I went back many times and he explained to me all
about the notes and the groups and the chants. He explained about the
ictus, and how this is not meant as an accent, but an invisible
moment. You can imagine how the world was opening up for
someone who had up until then only played the piano, where every tone
is percussive. I was thirteen or fourteen years old.
Q:
Were
you a singer at the time?
BROUWERS:
I was
too shy. I started singing with Fr. Michael. Slowly I
discovered its beauty. Later, of course, in the music
academy, I continued learning Gregorian chant. I sang with
the schola.
Q:
And
today?
BROUWERS:
I’m a conductor, teacher, and composer.. I conduct three
choirs, two chamber choirs, a youth choir, and there is a church choir
which is now and then under my direction. I am also an organist in a
small church.
Q:
And
you teach as well.
BROUWERS:The
teaching I do is for the Ward Center. We teach courses for
music teachers who want to use the method. I teach in the schools,
too. I want to keep this contact with real work,
and to feel how it is to do this work with children week
after week. And composing, hmm, I do whenever I have a free
hour or a free morning or a free week. It is mainly choral
music.
Q:
Is it
all sacred music?
BROUWERS:
No.
Now I do other things as well. I try to use the Dutch language, where
Dutch composers don’t want to use their own language. They
write in English. They want to be international composers;
they want to be sung outside the country. But I think the
Dutch language is nice to write in, that I have decided to put an
emphasis on it.
Q:
Do
you approach sacred and profane musically differently?
BROUWERS:
No, to
tell the truth, when I choose the text for a profane piece, there is
always something sacred in it, too. Some poetry contains a
higher life, and tells of a life beyond this one. I always
try to find texts with depth. In general the idea of
composition is the same, only when you compose directly for a
particular church choir, and you know that they are not the very best
choir, you have to keep that in mind.
You
also have to be careful that you are not, how should I put
it? Showing your art. You shouldn’t be the vain one
who says “listen to my piece.” That is
what I have tried to do with the Missa
Alma Pater (sung at this
colloquium). There is a lot of silence in it; it is prayerful
composing. Humble isn’t a good word, but you know
what I mean.
Q:
Do
your chamber choirs sing chant?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
I often combine chant with polyphony in a concert. Of course
you feel it when the chant is not part of the sacred action.
Still, people buying a tickets and hearing the chant might be
touched. Something of the sacred enters in.
Q:
Should
all singing in church be a capella?
BROUWERS:
Good
accompaniment can add something to singing in a church. I am
not talking about merely picking out the melody. That is what
you usually hear, and this doesn’t take much skill.
What I like to do is pick up the melody in the alto or the tenor line,
and lead the singing in an indirect way.
Q:
How is
this effective?
BROUWERS:
A person listens to the music and finds the melody buried within it.
And once he has found it, he can sing it himself. I once had
a gentleman come up to me and motion to his throat and he said,
“When you play, I can sing. I don’t know what you
do, but I feel I can sing.” He was
overjoyed. I was too.
Q:
You
also inspire people with visual imagery. You use this when you are
conducting a choir.
BROUWERS:
Oh,
you noticed?
Q:
Of
course.
BROUWERS:
It is a way of working. I like to read and write poetry, so I
try to inspire people by giving them some kind of image, and then they
can do what needs to be done. Only giving them technical information,
about your throat and mouth and lips, can cause everything to
become very empty. But a good image inspires you to do
something a certain way.
Q:
You do
the same with children, I assume.
BROUWERS:
There
is not much difference to me. I work with children as if they
were adults, and they respond to this very well. I like to
use humor and imagery. Of course there are always some people who tell
me that they want more technical information. But the goal, I think, is
for people to bring their experiences and their inspiration into the
musical work.
Q: All
of this assumes, of course, all of your choir members are showing up at
rehearsal. How do you deal with attendance issues?
BROUWERS: Yes,
that can be a problem. I like to make it the responsibility of the
choir itself and not me who tells them they have to come. I
remind them that we had all agreed to be there. We all
agreed. If you do not come, it is not only that you are
causing a problem for me, because my instrument is not complete, but
you are causing a problem for everyone who agreed to be there.
Q:
Making attendance an individual responsibility is the answer?
BROUWERS: To
be honest, I don’t have the type of problem that people
aren’t coming without good reasons. When it does
happen, you have to draw great attention to it. Choir singing
demands a certain attitude, and you often have to teach this to people.
Not everyone comes in with this attitude.
Q:
Do you
perceive any trends in attitudes toward liturgy and liturgical music in
the Netherlands right now?
BROUWERS:
I
can’t say there is anything characteristic. There
are so many different types of churches, including Catholic churches,
with different profiles. This is typically Dutch, too,
especially these days. There is a great variety of things, and people
have the possibility to find their way in this variety.
Everyone can find a place where he is at home.
Q:
Where
are you most at home?
BROUWERS: I
like to go to Sunday Mass at the monastery I mentioned
earlier. It is right on the border of Holland and
Belgium. One can say that when one sits in the dining room,
one side of the table is in Holland and one in Belgium. This is really
a place of silence. The music is surrounded by silence.
Q:
You
have mentioned silence now several times.
BROUWERS:
Yes.
I think silence is a sacred thing in music. Is is as important as the
notes themselves.
Q:
What
else moves you, as a conductor?
BROUWERS:
Ah,
very good question. The thing that makes me say
“wow!”? It is the Vespro
della Beata Vergine, by
Monteverdi. That is the thing. That is it. We did it three
years ago with fantastic instrumentalists, soloists, and I had the best
time of my life. It begins with the same motif as that that begins the
opera “Orpheus.” It was so great, with
tenors standing far away to create an echo.
Q:
Was
this a convention of the 17th
century?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
Monteverdi had asked for it. The tenor stands in front of the people,
and it creates the effect of a real echo. Just fabulous.
Something
else I would like to conduct, and I haven’t done it yet, is
the B Minor Mass by Bach. There is nothing like standing in front of
your group and a piece is so big that it is not about you or your group
or the singers or the orchestra. It is about something much
bigger. You forget yourself completely.
Q:
How
can you direct if you lose yourself in a piece of music?
BROUWERS: You
have to deal with the details during rehearsal, but during the concert,
the details need to come from the singers. I use a pencil to mark a few
places on my score where I am needed, but during a concert, the details
need to come from the group. I don’t conduct those.
Q: What
was your most memorable conducting experience at this Colloquium?
BROUWERS:
I
think the Durufle “Pater Noster” was very nice. I
felt that people were really watching my hands, and treating the piece
very tenderly.
Q:
Was not watching a problem with the other pieces?
BROUWERS: There
wasn’t enough time. When the choir knows the piece well and
can watch me, there is a great feeling: the feeling of bodies and minds
being connected. But if the choir is not ready and still has
to read, we cannot make this contact. When we started the
Sweelink’s “Venite exultemus
Domino,” bodies began to wake up. It is
very energetic.
Oh,
and do you know what I enjoyed very much? I enjoyed standing in the
Crypt Church of the Shrine during rehearsal on the Di Lasso
“Improperium.” It gave you that feeling
of “aha!” You could feel the music coming to life.
Q:
What
can you say of your experience with this Colloquium in general?
BROUWERS:
Of
course I was honored when Fr. Skeris invited me to come. It
was an exciting opportunity, but I didn’t know what to
expect. I didn’t know if there would be a choir at
all. And then to find out on the first evening that we had
nine sopranos, nine altos, six tenors, and six basses! I was
very happy.
Q:
What
about the quality of the singing?
BROUWERS: I
think everyone was so open, and so motivated to do a good
thing. Every day the choir grew in sound and
concentration. Although the performances may not be for a
recording or the radio, it doesn’t matter. We had a good
experience with all of the pieces. The most important thing is that
there are moments in your rehearsal, or in your performance when you
capture the spirit of the piece.
Q:
Have
you had any personal revelations this week?
BROUWERS: I
had many conversations with many people, and it was very interesting to
me to see how people try to find their way. They are often
quite alone in what they want. I didn’t meet any bitter or
disappointed people. I meet them in Holland more often.
It was
very inspiring for me to see that everyone had his own flame of
inspiration still burning. It was also interesting for me to
see that the European culture is so highly esteemed: in the
liturgy, and in the architecture, for example.
Q:
Was
this regard for European culture something you hadn’t
anticipated?
BROUWERS:
I
didn’t know. I thought American culture was
something of its own. In this group, as Fr. Skeris said in
one of his lectures, our roots are in Europe. That is interesting for
me. What kind of feeling is that, to live here, but to say
that your cultural roots are elsewhere. Does it feel that you
are in exile?
Q:
“In
exile” is an interesting way to put it.
BROUWERS: Do
you feel that you are in exile, or do you feel at home here. Does it
feel like something foreign that you are trying to make your own?
Q:
Oh,
are you asking me?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
sorry!
Q:
Well,
I can only speak for myself. My parents were both European,
so I spent a great deal of time in Europe as a child.
I’ve always lived with both cultures. In
my case, I feel I came to a point where I had to decide where I belong,
and where life will continue.
BROUWERS:
I
wouldn’t have known this.
Q:
As an
artist, in what ways are you aware of your own cultural heritage?
BROUWERS:
Well,
my wife is a good example. She is from Hungary. I
lived in Hungary for a year, and after we were married we decided to
move to Holland. We have been living in Holland for sixteen
years. She feels at home in Holland, but there is always a part of her
soul which is still in Hungary. And when we go to Hungary for
the summer holidays, part of her soul is in Holland. She combines the
two influences very well. As for myself, I live in the village where I
was born.
Q:
Where
is that?
BROUWERS:
In
Eindhoven. It is in the south, near the Belgian border. I,
for instance, like to compose in my own language. But I try
to compose in Hungarian, too. You have your own roots, but
you always have something else which attracts you. Orlando Di
Lasso, for example, combined everything. He combined all of
European culture in his music.
Q:
How
does this come into play when you are composing for the Church? On the
one hand you want to compose something that, like the chant, is
universal. On the other hand, you are dealing with an
independent and inevitable set of cultural influences.
BROUWERS:
You
don’t do what you do consciously. My wife might
come in while I am composing and say, “that sounds
Hungarian.” And I ask, “does
it?” Or I might be composing something in a certain
mode without realizing it. Of course with the Missa
Alma Pater I was working from
something already given, but for the most part, the music just comes
about. It is in your blood.
Q:
What
is it in Sweelink’s work that makes it Dutch?
BROUWERS:
I
think that Dutch composers, as Dutch people in general, like to
organize things. Dutch music is very organized.
Every note is in the right place, and has a very clear structure. Many
modern composers over organize, thinking only about the construction of
the piece. There comes a moment when you don’t feel
any soul, or any blood in the piece.
Q:
Is
this a danger?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
but it doesn’t have to be. Look at the works of the Dutch
composers. Look at JosQuin Du Pre, Sweelink or course, or Orlando Di
Lasso, whom I mentioned before.
Q:
Di
Lasso was a Dutchman?
BROUWERS:
Well, yes, but he worked everywhere. Di Lasso was a
“European,” avent
la lettre.
Q:
Was
Sweelink a contemporary of Monteverdi? There was something
modern about the piece we worked on.
BROUWERS:
Yes, I
have that same feeling with Monteverdi. He is so modern,
still. That is why in one of my choirs, The Monteverdi
Chamber Choir Utrecht, we sing Monteverdi and contemporary music, and
sometimes within the same program. You feel the spirit of the
composer. You are so surprised by his ideas and expression
and knowledge of the human soul. I feel this in Sweelink, too.
Q:
Can
music save a soul?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
it can. In one sense all good music is religious. It is in this sense
that it contains this one and only message: Thy Kingdom come, Thy will
be done on earth as it is in heaven. It is the language of
comfort.
Q:
What
music is your avenue to salvation?
BROUWERS: The
big organ works by Bach that I listened to as a little boy. They told
me that music is the language of heaven, that there is a great world
beyond the one we live in every day. They made me decide to
make music my profession, and to make my life worth living.
St. Michael's Catholic Church in Auburn, Alabama
Sacred
Music and Salvation
An Interview with Wilko Brouwers
(also
in PDF)
Famous conductors of our day wave their batons in front of big city
orchestras, compose electrically charged film scores, and attract
adoring crowds. But there is more than one path to greatness.
Others follow in the in the footsteps of Palestrina and Bach with their
deliberate commitment to truly sacred music that is truly art. They
understand the intimate relationship between music and holiness, and
work to make that connection real in our religious lives.
Wilko
Brouwers, conductor, composer, organist, and teacher, is a man for whom
great music is inseparable from that which is sacred. He
understands that it alone is this connection with the Creator that make
music worthy of our best efforts, most specifically, within the context
of the Catholic liturgy. Mr. Brouwers is unassuming in
stature, but immense in artistry, insight, and the relentless pursuit
of perfection in the service of the faith.
A native of the Netherlands, Brouwers studied choral conducting at the
Music Academy of Arnhem and the Liszt Academy in Budapest, and is the
director of the Ward Center Holland, an institute for music education.
He has conducted the Monteverdi
Kamerkoor Utrecht since 1989, a
group which performs in the Netherlands and abroad, has made recording
and earned top honors in the Dutch Choir Festival’s mixed
choir category in 1997 and 2000. He also directs the Strijps Kamerkoor,
the Kinderkoor Keysershoff, and plays the organ for Saint Christopher
Church in Waalre.
Mr.
Brouwers was invited to serve as choral conductor for the Church Music
Association of America’s
14th
annual Colloquium on
Liturgical Music and the Restoration of the Sacred, held at Catholic
University the during the fourth week of June, 2004. The aim of this
annual meeting is to assist church musicians in maintaining the highest
artistic standards in composition and execution, and to preserve the
Church’s treasury of sacred music, especially Gregorian
chant. Mr. Brouwers (email
was interviewed during this meeting by Arlene Oost-Zinner
in Washington, DC.
* * *
* *
Q:
How
did you first encounter Gregorian chant?
BROUWERS:
At a
monastery of Benedictines. I was a little boy,and my father took me
there, and I heard the monks sing. The next week I went on my
bicycle, and I asked the name of the monk was who was conducting. Fr.
Michael came out and introduced himself, and I asked him to teach me
what they were doing. He took me into a wood and we sat on a large
stone, and I remember very distinctly what he said to me:
“There is a world of melody, and a world of
rhythm.”
Q:
Did
you understand what he meant?
BROUWERS:
Not
really, but he said it with such a sense of mystery that I was sure
that he was right. I went back many times and he explained to me all
about the notes and the groups and the chants. He explained about the
ictus, and how this is not meant as an accent, but an invisible
moment. You can imagine how the world was opening up for
someone who had up until then only played the piano, where every tone
is percussive. I was thirteen or fourteen years old.
Q:
Were
you a singer at the time?
BROUWERS:
I was
too shy. I started singing with Fr. Michael. Slowly I
discovered its beauty. Later, of course, in the music
academy, I continued learning Gregorian chant. I sang with
the schola.
Q:
And
today?
BROUWERS:
I’m a conductor, teacher, and composer.. I conduct three
choirs, two chamber choirs, a youth choir, and there is a church choir
which is now and then under my direction. I am also an organist in a
small church.
Q:
And
you teach as well.
BROUWERS:The
teaching I do is for the Ward Center. We teach courses for
music teachers who want to use the method. I teach in the schools,
too. I want to keep this contact with real work,
and to feel how it is to do this work with children week
after week. And composing, hmm, I do whenever I have a free
hour or a free morning or a free week. It is mainly choral
music.
Q:
Is it
all sacred music?
BROUWERS:
No.
Now I do other things as well. I try to use the Dutch language, where
Dutch composers don’t want to use their own language. They
write in English. They want to be international composers;
they want to be sung outside the country. But I think the
Dutch language is nice to write in, that I have decided to put an
emphasis on it.
Q:
Do
you approach sacred and profane musically differently?
BROUWERS:
No, to
tell the truth, when I choose the text for a profane piece, there is
always something sacred in it, too. Some poetry contains a
higher life, and tells of a life beyond this one. I always
try to find texts with depth. In general the idea of
composition is the same, only when you compose directly for a
particular church choir, and you know that they are not the very best
choir, you have to keep that in mind.
You
also have to be careful that you are not, how should I put
it? Showing your art. You shouldn’t be the vain one
who says “listen to my piece.” That is
what I have tried to do with the Missa
Alma Pater (sung at this
colloquium). There is a lot of silence in it; it is prayerful
composing. Humble isn’t a good word, but you know
what I mean.
Q:
Do
your chamber choirs sing chant?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
I often combine chant with polyphony in a concert. Of course
you feel it when the chant is not part of the sacred action.
Still, people buying a tickets and hearing the chant might be
touched. Something of the sacred enters in.
Q:
Should
all singing in church be a capella?
BROUWERS:
Good
accompaniment can add something to singing in a church. I am
not talking about merely picking out the melody. That is what
you usually hear, and this doesn’t take much skill.
What I like to do is pick up the melody in the alto or the tenor line,
and lead the singing in an indirect way.
Q:
How is
this effective?
BROUWERS:
A person listens to the music and finds the melody buried within it.
And once he has found it, he can sing it himself. I once had
a gentleman come up to me and motion to his throat and he said,
“When you play, I can sing. I don’t know what you
do, but I feel I can sing.” He was
overjoyed. I was too.
Q:
You
also inspire people with visual imagery. You use this when you are
conducting a choir.
BROUWERS:
Oh,
you noticed?
Q:
Of
course.
BROUWERS:
It is a way of working. I like to read and write poetry, so I
try to inspire people by giving them some kind of image, and then they
can do what needs to be done. Only giving them technical information,
about your throat and mouth and lips, can cause everything to
become very empty. But a good image inspires you to do
something a certain way.
Q:
You do
the same with children, I assume.
BROUWERS:
There
is not much difference to me. I work with children as if they
were adults, and they respond to this very well. I like to
use humor and imagery. Of course there are always some people who tell
me that they want more technical information. But the goal, I think, is
for people to bring their experiences and their inspiration into the
musical work.
Q: All
of this assumes, of course, all of your choir members are showing up at
rehearsal. How do you deal with attendance issues?
BROUWERS: Yes,
that can be a problem. I like to make it the responsibility of the
choir itself and not me who tells them they have to come. I
remind them that we had all agreed to be there. We all
agreed. If you do not come, it is not only that you are
causing a problem for me, because my instrument is not complete, but
you are causing a problem for everyone who agreed to be there.
Q:
Making attendance an individual responsibility is the answer?
BROUWERS: To
be honest, I don’t have the type of problem that people
aren’t coming without good reasons. When it does
happen, you have to draw great attention to it. Choir singing
demands a certain attitude, and you often have to teach this to people.
Not everyone comes in with this attitude.
Q:
Do you
perceive any trends in attitudes toward liturgy and liturgical music in
the Netherlands right now?
BROUWERS:
I
can’t say there is anything characteristic. There
are so many different types of churches, including Catholic churches,
with different profiles. This is typically Dutch, too,
especially these days. There is a great variety of things, and people
have the possibility to find their way in this variety.
Everyone can find a place where he is at home.
Q:
Where
are you most at home?
BROUWERS: I
like to go to Sunday Mass at the monastery I mentioned
earlier. It is right on the border of Holland and
Belgium. One can say that when one sits in the dining room,
one side of the table is in Holland and one in Belgium. This is really
a place of silence. The music is surrounded by silence.
Q:
You
have mentioned silence now several times.
BROUWERS:
Yes.
I think silence is a sacred thing in music. Is is as important as the
notes themselves.
Q:
What
else moves you, as a conductor?
BROUWERS:
Ah,
very good question. The thing that makes me say
“wow!”? It is the Vespro
della Beata Vergine, by
Monteverdi. That is the thing. That is it. We did it three
years ago with fantastic instrumentalists, soloists, and I had the best
time of my life. It begins with the same motif as that that begins the
opera “Orpheus.” It was so great, with
tenors standing far away to create an echo.
Q:
Was
this a convention of the 17th
century?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
Monteverdi had asked for it. The tenor stands in front of the people,
and it creates the effect of a real echo. Just fabulous.
Something
else I would like to conduct, and I haven’t done it yet, is
the B Minor Mass by Bach. There is nothing like standing in front of
your group and a piece is so big that it is not about you or your group
or the singers or the orchestra. It is about something much
bigger. You forget yourself completely.
Q:
How
can you direct if you lose yourself in a piece of music?
BROUWERS: You
have to deal with the details during rehearsal, but during the concert,
the details need to come from the singers. I use a pencil to mark a few
places on my score where I am needed, but during a concert, the details
need to come from the group. I don’t conduct those.
Q: What
was your most memorable conducting experience at this Colloquium?
BROUWERS:
I
think the Durufle “Pater Noster” was very nice. I
felt that people were really watching my hands, and treating the piece
very tenderly.
Q:
Was not watching a problem with the other pieces?
BROUWERS: There
wasn’t enough time. When the choir knows the piece well and
can watch me, there is a great feeling: the feeling of bodies and minds
being connected. But if the choir is not ready and still has
to read, we cannot make this contact. When we started the
Sweelink’s “Venite exultemus
Domino,” bodies began to wake up. It is
very energetic.
Oh,
and do you know what I enjoyed very much? I enjoyed standing in the
Crypt Church of the Shrine during rehearsal on the Di Lasso
“Improperium.” It gave you that feeling
of “aha!” You could feel the music coming to life.
Q:
What
can you say of your experience with this Colloquium in general?
BROUWERS:
Of
course I was honored when Fr. Skeris invited me to come. It
was an exciting opportunity, but I didn’t know what to
expect. I didn’t know if there would be a choir at
all. And then to find out on the first evening that we had
nine sopranos, nine altos, six tenors, and six basses! I was
very happy.
Q:
What
about the quality of the singing?
BROUWERS: I
think everyone was so open, and so motivated to do a good
thing. Every day the choir grew in sound and
concentration. Although the performances may not be for a
recording or the radio, it doesn’t matter. We had a good
experience with all of the pieces. The most important thing is that
there are moments in your rehearsal, or in your performance when you
capture the spirit of the piece.
Q:
Have
you had any personal revelations this week?
BROUWERS: I
had many conversations with many people, and it was very interesting to
me to see how people try to find their way. They are often
quite alone in what they want. I didn’t meet any bitter or
disappointed people. I meet them in Holland more often.
It was
very inspiring for me to see that everyone had his own flame of
inspiration still burning. It was also interesting for me to
see that the European culture is so highly esteemed: in the
liturgy, and in the architecture, for example.
Q:
Was
this regard for European culture something you hadn’t
anticipated?
BROUWERS:
I
didn’t know. I thought American culture was
something of its own. In this group, as Fr. Skeris said in
one of his lectures, our roots are in Europe. That is interesting for
me. What kind of feeling is that, to live here, but to say
that your cultural roots are elsewhere. Does it feel that you
are in exile?
Q:
“In
exile” is an interesting way to put it.
BROUWERS: Do
you feel that you are in exile, or do you feel at home here. Does it
feel like something foreign that you are trying to make your own?
Q:
Oh,
are you asking me?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
sorry!
Q:
Well,
I can only speak for myself. My parents were both European,
so I spent a great deal of time in Europe as a child.
I’ve always lived with both cultures. In
my case, I feel I came to a point where I had to decide where I belong,
and where life will continue.
BROUWERS:
I
wouldn’t have known this.
Q:
As an
artist, in what ways are you aware of your own cultural heritage?
BROUWERS:
Well,
my wife is a good example. She is from Hungary. I
lived in Hungary for a year, and after we were married we decided to
move to Holland. We have been living in Holland for sixteen
years. She feels at home in Holland, but there is always a part of her
soul which is still in Hungary. And when we go to Hungary for
the summer holidays, part of her soul is in Holland. She combines the
two influences very well. As for myself, I live in the village where I
was born.
Q:
Where
is that?
BROUWERS:
In
Eindhoven. It is in the south, near the Belgian border. I,
for instance, like to compose in my own language. But I try
to compose in Hungarian, too. You have your own roots, but
you always have something else which attracts you. Orlando Di
Lasso, for example, combined everything. He combined all of
European culture in his music.
Q:
How
does this come into play when you are composing for the Church? On the
one hand you want to compose something that, like the chant, is
universal. On the other hand, you are dealing with an
independent and inevitable set of cultural influences.
BROUWERS:
You
don’t do what you do consciously. My wife might
come in while I am composing and say, “that sounds
Hungarian.” And I ask, “does
it?” Or I might be composing something in a certain
mode without realizing it. Of course with the Missa
Alma Pater I was working from
something already given, but for the most part, the music just comes
about. It is in your blood.
Q:
What
is it in Sweelink’s work that makes it Dutch?
BROUWERS:
I
think that Dutch composers, as Dutch people in general, like to
organize things. Dutch music is very organized.
Every note is in the right place, and has a very clear structure. Many
modern composers over organize, thinking only about the construction of
the piece. There comes a moment when you don’t feel
any soul, or any blood in the piece.
Q:
Is
this a danger?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
but it doesn’t have to be. Look at the works of the Dutch
composers. Look at JosQuin Du Pre, Sweelink or course, or Orlando Di
Lasso, whom I mentioned before.
Q:
Di
Lasso was a Dutchman?
BROUWERS:
Well, yes, but he worked everywhere. Di Lasso was a
“European,” avent
la lettre.
Q:
Was
Sweelink a contemporary of Monteverdi? There was something
modern about the piece we worked on.
BROUWERS:
Yes, I
have that same feeling with Monteverdi. He is so modern,
still. That is why in one of my choirs, The Monteverdi
Chamber Choir Utrecht, we sing Monteverdi and contemporary music, and
sometimes within the same program. You feel the spirit of the
composer. You are so surprised by his ideas and expression
and knowledge of the human soul. I feel this in Sweelink, too.
Q:
Can
music save a soul?
BROUWERS:
Yes,
it can. In one sense all good music is religious. It is in this sense
that it contains this one and only message: Thy Kingdom come, Thy will
be done on earth as it is in heaven. It is the language of
comfort.
Q:
What
music is your avenue to salvation?
BROUWERS: The
big organ works by Bach that I listened to as a little boy. They told
me that music is the language of heaven, that there is a great world
beyond the one we live in every day. They made me decide to
make music my profession, and to make my life worth living.
